I usually don’t comment on Gawker (or even Jezebel), as I don’t like getting drawn into fights. Instead, one of my favorite past times is watching OTHER people getting drawn into fights. There are some epic threads that make for good reading.

But yesterday, on a post about a man who opened up a plus-size hair salon (really), someone begged the annoying question: why is it ok to harass smokers about their health, but not fat people.

I had to comment, God help my soul. This was my response:

Smoking and obesity are NOT COMPARABLE. You don’t need nicotine to live. We have to eat. (obesity and food addiction, at least insomuch as treatment is concerned, are also not comparable with alcoholism and drug addiction, IMO, even if there are some commonalities when it comes to brain chemistry…)

People may lambast smokers, primarily because, I don’t know, their smoking can have a profound adverse health effect on bystanders. (I speak as someone who grew up with a smoking parent, too) You can’t “catch” obesity, and standing next to an obese person can’t give YOU cancer. Moreover, it’s generally accepted that a huge part of the problem with smoking is insidious advertising and marketing from the smoking industry… which is now heavily restricted. Yet people refuse to take the same stance when it comes to food advertising (and truth in “food” advertising — a lot of processed junk is NOT food). Food, and junk food, is ALSO highly addictive, but we don’t talk about that (we really need to start talking about that!). We talk about willpower and choices. It’s a MYTH that by SHEER WILLPOWER obese people can overcome food, fitness, health, nutrition and behavior problems. Willpower and choices are a part of it. But not all. (and, honestly, the few people I know who succeeded on the sheer willpower diet are now thin but hate themselves, and hate fat people — so much internalized self-hate!)

Also, being a smoker is not an “obvious” physical characteristic, so you won’t see a smoker discriminated against or publicly humiliated and tormented as you would an obese person. Not saying smokers don’t take a lot of flack — they do! And a lot of it is unwarranted, because others health-policing strangers is douchey (fat or smoking! Or both!). There’s just SO MUCH unspoken (and spoken) fat stigma already. That’s why it’s really not necessary to make it “OK” to health police fat people.

 

I got one OMG BUTTHURT response from someone who, naturally, DID employ SHEER WILLPOWER to lose weight and they OMG DON’T HATE THEMSELVES. Quote:

I got thin on sheer willpower, and I don’t hate myself. I don’t hate fat people, either, but I do hate it when a fat person claims he or she can’t get thin no matter what they do. Especially if they say it as they’re scarfing down a Big Mac, which I have actually seen somebody do.

We all pay for obesity-related health problems (whether a person has insurance or not), so it really is everybody’s business.

Thanks for illustrating my point there, sparky! The one where I said that formerly fat people are the hardest on still-fat people (aka: fat hate, fat shaming). Because, in my experience (which I noted! I said PERSONALLY!), those who succeeded & live on an *extremely* restrictive “willpower” diet are patently miserable and super duper into body snarking and body/food policing. Everything in moderation, my friends.

And, for the record, the SHEER WILLPOWER diet of which I speak is the imaginary one that Not Fat People tell us about: “Oh, don’t you know that all you have to do is eat less and exercise more? Put down the Big Mac!” Oh, jeeze, I didn’t know it was that simple! I just have to subsist off lettuce and lentils for the rest of my life and everything will be PERFECT! As I said *in my comment* (people don’t read), willpower and choices are part of making a lifestyle change. But the idea that all you need is SHEER WILLPOWER to overcome obesity is silly.

But the comment that TAKES THE CAKE is this one:

Actually there have been studies showing that you can essentially catch obesity by normalization. Good friends and family members being the highest risk.

That’s right, folks. This guy thinks you can CATCH obesity. Like a communicable disease! Bear in mind that what he *means* is studies that show that if your friends and family are obese, you are statistically more likely to be obese yourself. DUH. But FFS, we just can’t win. People think you can catch obesity. The Internet fails at life.

Maybe I’m a coward, but I didn’t respond to any of the responses to me, as I found them silly, reductive and knew that to “argue” would be pointless. Once someone has succeeded on the SHEER WILLPOWER diet, there’s no telling them that it’s just not that easy for other people, and that to suggest so is patronizing. Don’t get me started on “catching” obesity guy.

And, frankly, my comment was in response to someone who compared health policing smokers with health policing obese people. I made my point, and the original commenter agreed with me. (the point: we shouldn’t police anyone… but smoking and obesity are certainly two very different things) I’m proud of my comment, and because I’m a narcissist, I’m posting it.

I have to thank a reader for pointing out this article from Salon to me. It’s an oldie but a goodie. The jist: studies show that overweight women are SCREWED when it comes to sex. Everyone is having more sex than fat women! Including fat men! It’s all very depressing.

Then there are the comments! Read if you dare (or just see below!). Note: most of these ridiculous comments are from men. Shocker.

Does one even need to ask?!
What’s next? A study into why attractive people seem to have more sex than ugly people?

That this gets reported as an article is only slightly less exasperating than the fact that someone actually spent time and effort into conducting a study on the topic.

Well, sparky, since you bring it up — people are really atrocious to “ugly” people too But I think you missed the part of this study where overweight men do just fine and dandy in the bedroom. That it’s only fat WOMEN who can’t get laid? Is indicative of the wider misogyny we face, as well as impossible beauty standards for women. Hell yes this is worthy of study. FAT WOMEN = UNLOVEABLE/SEXY IS A PROBLEM.

And the “pretending you are a shining example to all fat people everywhere and hold the Magic Key to Success” comment award goes to…

I mean, seriously? First of all, I’m assuming this commenter is male. OMG, you were “overweight once”! You did a handy little program and all your problems went away! *eyeroll* I know I’m a weight loss blogger and all, but I hate when people assume their specific situation applies to ALL fat people everywhere. My favorite part is his suggestion to find a better “therapy” than cookies. Um, how about realizing that some people legitimately need therapy, and not your derision?

Two brief comments
1. There is apparently a small percentage of the male population that is just crazy about obese women. I’m not one of those men, but I’m sure they can be found on the internet as well as in non-virtual life.

2. Obesity is to some extent self-inflicted. My wife has two sisters: one is very overweight (although she wasn’t when she was younger and working as a carpenter); one is rather thin (she doesn’t eat much). And my wife could be obese if she let herself go, but she’s a diet maniac and works out regularly, so she looks great even at age 60. I’m sure the overweight sister could have had a story similar to my wife’s but she never elected to do anything about it.

Conclusion: Having good sex takes effort of all kinds.

Well, golly gee, I am SO GLAD your wife hasn’t “let herself go” — God forbid you be married to a porker! Have you ever thought that perhaps your wife is a “diet maniac” because she’s afraid otherwise you wouldn’t love her? Food for thought. (but don’t let her eat it)

Andddddddd thanks for reminding us fatties that we don’t have to be alone — we can always find a fat fetishist to love us! There’s nothing I love more than someone glorifying my fat rolls, like I’m a non-human sexual object!

…

That’s the best/worst of it — it’s really just more MEN saying “OMG, I used to be 40 lbs overweight I lost it, it was easy!” and “I hate fat people, they are ugly and horrible” and one or two women sticking up for, well, women.

Now the study was done in France, but I think some of the broader conclusions are applicable to the U.S., at least in terms of begging the question of female fat sexuality vs. male fat sexuality.

What do you think?

I debated covering this massive Comment Fail, because I know Kenlie, of the FANTASTIC blog All The Weigh, personally. I followed her saga with Southwest on her blog, and totally missed that the story hit all the news blogs. It is really difficult to read the mass of hateful, ignorant, particularly ugly comments being made on articles covering the story, not only because they are horrible, but because I know the person against whom they are casting hateful aspersions. This is a fellow blogger; someone whose words I have been reading for the past few months and had the privilege of meeting when she visited L.A. She deserves our support for so many reasons, not least of all because she’s a sweet person who has unwittingly become the whipping boy of fat hating idiots on Internet news sites.

The worst I’ve seen thus far is on the Huffington Post, where I’ve seen massive Comment Fail before (prior to starting this blog feature). After reading enough of it, I couldn’t not at least call out some comments that illustrate very common fat-shaming/hating that need to be addressed. You see the same kinds of comments crop up on ANY story about fat/obesity in America, and it’s time to start breaking this stuff down. (also: journalism fail! Poor details + linking to article with poor details = FAIL)

Let’s start positive, at least? (kind of)

Given the girth of the “average” American, I am surprised that airlines haven’t changed out their seats to accommodate the reality. Make a section of the plane available to “large capacity” seats.

I agree, not just because airplane seats should reflect reality, but because space on airplanes, especially bargain airlines, has diminished remarkably in the past twenty years. I’ve noticed, as a tall person, that I fit into AirTran, American Airlines and Delta seats very differently at age 27 and age 18. If you examine an airplane sometime and how the seats line up, it becomes pretty obvious that many planes have been retrofitted to fit MORE SEATS. You’re not crazy: yes, you have less leg room than you did fifteen years ago. Some airlines HAVE decreased the horizontal space passengers have as well, going from two-seat on each side rows to three seats on each side rows.

But don’t get excited. The stupid creeps in in a response to this comment:

That’d be telling people that it’s OK not to lose weight.

Oh, yes. Those stupid fatties. MUSN’T TELL THEM IT’S OK TO BE FAT! I mean, come on guys, we make it SO EASY for people to be fat, those stupid fatties think it’s just the most awesome thing ever! We need to pack them in like sardines in planes so they feel really bad about themselves and are motivated to lose weight. </sarcasm> (reality, of course: they just don’t fly)

This is such a divisive, commonly held belief about obesity in American society — that making any accommodations of the increasing American girth is to tell people it’s ok to be fat. Once upon a time, Americans were shorter. If you’ve ever been in an old house in Boston and are over 5 foot 9, you’ve probably knocked your head on a door frame or two (I have). We got taller, and construction of buildings changed with that — higher door frames and ceilings. We became taller due to better nutrition, among other things. We’ve become fatter for a number of reasons, many of which are just as out of our control as our height (processed foods, availability of afford healthy food, advertising). Reality check: we’re bigger. So why are we trying to cram the average American, who is overweight and at least a size 14, into a seat made for a tiny person? Adding an inch and a half of hip space isn’t telling fat people it’s ok to be fat. It’s making ALL CUSTOMERS a bit more comfortable in their seat.

I loathe people who think that giving overweight/obese people a decent quality of life is tantamount to “condoning” their weight. News flash: fat people feel like shit about themselves ALL THE TIME. Trying to fit into a world sized for average-heighted, svelte people is not fun; and fat shaming doesn’t make anyone healthily lose weight (or like themselves).

Next Fail!Comment:

Simple solution. Before you get on the plane you step on a scale.  The tickets should be priced according to weight.

Where to start? Well, even aside from this conversation, can I just talk about HOW FUCKING FRUSTRATING it is when people think about weight and poundage/numbers in such a finite way? People make broad assumptions about a person, their weight and their health based on numbers — “Oh, you’re over 200 lbs? You’re obese.” Often, people who think like this are a) short and b) thin. If you yourself have never been more than 130 lbs and are used to a media who, similarly, equates anything over 150 as “fat” (regardless of height, muscle, etc.), sure, you think a number like 250 or 300 is OMG HUGE. This is the reason I was afraid to tell anyone my weight, even when I was 180. Now I realize, dude, I’m 5 foot 10! 180 is TOTALLY APPROPRIATE FOR MY HEIGHT. But I always thought it was a grossly high number and I should be embarrassed. Now I’m 220. LOL.

I’d like to see this person say to a 6 foot 4 NFL player that they have to pay more or buy two seats because they weigh 300 lbs. Fail.

I did not like when people try and make me out has the bad guy because I do not have any sympathy for the situation you put yourself in. Nobody forces you to eat fast food day and night, just as nobody forces a junkie to take a hit. I can understand if it is a medical condition. If that is the case, bring proof and the airline should accommodate. Just like a cancer patient needs to have a prescripti­on to prove they are not a junkie.  The obese seem to think everyone that eats well and exercises needs to accommodat­e them. It is not a handicap.

+ failsauce response:

Could we have some kudos to the non-obese people who work hard at not getting obese? Its not luck you know. Every thin person I know works hard at it, both with exercising and not eating everything they want.

I… do not even quite know where to begin. So many mixed metaphors. Let’s break it down:

1. Clearly, neither of you have ever had disordered food behaviors or body issues.
2. The assumption that all thin people = working hard at staying thin = are healthy = LOL NO. Newsflash for fail!commenter: fat people work out too! No, really! Some of them, gasp!, even eat healthily! LOL THIN PRIVILEGE.
3. Obese people… not drug addicts BUT in both cases, actually, some individuals have shown a chemical impulse that does, actually, make them eat. And WTH — nobody forces a junkie to take a hit, but do you seriously not recognize that drug addicts don’t have control? You think they LIKE having their hair/teeth fall out, destroying their lives and families and ending up on the street/dead? Really? You think obese people are choosing to be obese?
4. Ah, the good ole “well, if it’s a medical issue I won’t treat you like a total piece of shit, but if it’s not — and I’m going to assume it’s not because I hate fat people — you are a lazy piece of shit who deserves no sympathy.” Medical vs. non-medical obesity/fat as a disease = needs an entire post unto itself.
5. Yes, some people have proveable medical reasons for being obese. But many do not. Frankly, it shouldn’t matter. Whether it’s a thyroid problem or you’ve been programmed from childhood to emotionally eat OR you’ve been convinced by the media & society that Fat Is Ugly and you have an eating disorder such as bulimia or anorexia, you deserve basic human compassion. Just basic. Thanks.
6. Wait, people assume that people are drug addicts unless they prove they have cancer? I’m so confused by how you see the world.
7. Actually, yes, obesity *can* be a handicap. I’m not into obesity as a victim status, but you can’t deny that one can become so obese that it is a physical handicap. More generally, it IS a social handicap — comments made by people like this are a perfect example of how people make assumptions based on physical evaluation.
8. “The obese seem to think everyone that eats well and exercises needs to accommodat­e them.” Wait… so fat people want to be treated with basic human decency? GET OUTTA TOWN! Following on this logic, I should treat any thin person I see who clearly isn’t getting proper nutrition or maintaining a healthy lifestyle like shit? (Yay?) Or is that just reserved for FAT people that you assume are unhealthy approaching “healthy” thin people for kindness and consideration? Conclusion: FAIL.

There’s more, GOD HELP US THERE’S MORE, but these were a few comments that stood out to me. It’s not worth debating with these short-sighted, fat hating individuals who are making cutting, personal comments against Kenlie. They don’t have compassion, they don’t know how to read, and engaging them won’t make them change.

Meghan McCain posted a column on The Daily Beast responding to a bit Glen Beck did on his show where he pretended to vomit for ten minutes after seeing her “naked” (from the collarbones up) in a PSA. Her response is a good one, and I recommend reading it. Apparently, people have been body politicking McCain for a while saying she’s fat? Crazy train.

There is nothing wrong with her body! (note: photo is from 2008)

Things get really interesting in the comments, where one user, DSchlageter, rails against lazy, weak, pathetic fat people. Other users try to counter him, to not much effect…

DSchlageter

This may be the only time I say this… But he’s right. Eat less exercise more Megan, being overweight is as bad as sunshine. Not that Glenn Beck is a honed razor himself. Eve realized “Nobody ever got fat eating apples” and got kicked out of the Garden for being healthy, now look at us. Ironic.

hannahas

People who have nothing constructive to say often resort to the lowest common demoninator in criticism. Lack of value in their comments is reflective more of them than of those they are criticizing. DSchlageter and Glenn Beck are cut of the same ilk.

DSchlageter

Not really David Schlageter has run 4 marathons He finished a 50 mile group and 84 mile individual bike ride last weekend, made a spin class Tuesday night after working out at lunch benching 245 for reps and hitting an intense weight training cardio class last night. That’s in addition to picking my son up from school, getting him to tennis and karate class, working with him on his homework and working on iPhone app development late so don’t feed me the “I’m too busy” shtick. He thinks saying “it’s ok to be fat”, “being fat is normal”, “you look good fat” reinforces weak behavior. He thinks being fat is being weak and lazy. Megan is out porking up eating out, wearing black and getting fat. You want to help her out call it out.

brightonite

Physically, you may be a “strong” man, but you have an incredibly weak mind.

This whole thing is sick to me. A perfectly beautiful woman makes a PSA with other beautiful women and it leads to fat jokes. Please, can we all let Beck bury himself in one of the many holes he has dug for himself. What a small, simple-minded, publicity whore who lends nothing to the public discourse which so many of us are desperate for. Can we get back to having legitimate discussions of the many important issues of the day?

JohnnyAces

@ Schlageter,

So glad to hear you’re obsessed with yourself. I happen to be pretty fit myself, but I don’t judge others by their physique.

Do us a favor as stay out of everyone else’s business. If anything you may want to work-out your body a little less and your brain a little more. You are clearly unable to see the value in what McCain is doing here, nor the harm of what Beck is doing.

DSchlageter

@ Mr Fit Johnny Aces, maybe you should get a little critical and create some awareness, the number of over weight people in this country is amazing. Pointing out that people are fat because they eat too much and exercise too little isn’t a bad thing. Telling them “it’s ok” and making excuses is. Megan is presenting her naked body in a video espousing healthy choices and it’s overweight. Beck is right but rude.

Salon.com followed up their “fat male privileges” editorial with another, about the general state of how current culture is ruining women’s health. They cited a recent study which found that a LOT of women would rather suffer from severe depression or even herpes than be obese. Specifically:

[Women] were asked to choose whether they would rather be obese or have one of 12 socially stigmatized conditions, such as alcoholism or herpes. In many cases, the women would rather have more of the other conditions, with 25.4 percent preferring severe depression and 14.5 percent preferring total blindness over obesity.

It’s a good piece pointing out an imperfect study but, regardless, one with interesting implications. I mean, seriously? Women would rather have herpes than be obese? Would rather have a condition that would make them want to kill themselves than be obese? Wow.

I wasn’t going to post about this piece so quickly on the heels of yesterday’s discussion of the double standard for overweight women vs. men… but then I read the comments.

So. Much. Comment. Fail.

Highlights:

Sorry but fatophobia has only made me healthier

I’m not a perfectionist type A personality, so I’m never going to get anorexia.

My fear of obesity has resulted in a lifetime of healthy eating and exercise habits, and I’m now enjoying cholesterol and blood pressure readings of someone thirty years younger.

So you’re happy that our culture has whipped you into an obsessively “healthy” frenzy? YOU’RE not prone to an eating disorder so it’s ok that we fat shame women, often to the point of madness, shame and guilt?

I’m not horrified by this

I was severely depressed briefly. It was extremely unpleasant. But it was also temporary and responded to antidepressants. If tomorrow, I had to wake up either severely depressed or obese, I’d pick the first one because I have more confidence that I could deal with it and make it go away. Same thing with, say, herpes.

So it’s IMPOSSIBLE to “get rid” of obesity? Obese = DOOMED FOR LIFE? Also, I think she is sorely misinformed about the treatment for herpes…

who’s fault ?

Women are stigmatized, women are shamed, women are victimized by gender roles..etc.

Exactly who is doing these things? Try to be more specific then “society,” or “culture.”

A woman’s boyfriend, husband, or son is extremely unlikely to be doing these things.

The group of people most abusive to women is other women. Women call each other the nastiest things when they think men aren’t around to hear.

In conclusion: MALE GAZE. READ ABOUT IT.

*all comments quoted verbatim — spelling & grammar errors and all!